tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post6493619559438395960..comments2023-10-09T04:48:51.981-07:00Comments on SFR Brigade: What is the role of Sex in Science Fiction and Science Fiction Romance?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-2227585841867806992010-09-30T12:56:06.954-07:002010-09-30T12:56:06.954-07:00Great article, Lisa, and a lively discussion, too....Great article, Lisa, and a lively discussion, too. Sorry to come into it so late. Coming to SFR from both science fiction and fan fiction, I know we have a lot of resistance to overcome in the SF world to the idea of sex as anything but an abstract construct. Hardcore SF fans are happy to read about other worlds where the psycho-social-sexual context is completely bizarre, but they spit nails when Captain Hero falls in love with alien Commander X, no matter what that context is. And yet, there MUST be an audience out there for SF,romance AND sex at all heat levels, given the years, websites and reams of paper devoted to fan fiction.<br /><br />My feeling about it is this. In a science fiction romance, the romance is HALF THE STORY. If the characters in that romance are adults and fully dimensional, you are inevitably going to be writing about sex. Why? Because sex advances and reflects the relationship. How can you truncate half of your story by avoiding that? It's as if you said, "And then they got in the spaceship and went to Planet X." Not fair to your characters or your readers. Now whether the trip is spicy, sweet, tender, bumpy, kinky, or missionary-style is up to your characters and your story. But you still have to show how we get from point A to point B. Show, not tell. Just like every other element of your story. I think it's just as vital and necessary.Donna S. Frelickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16431686010313020234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-3799962979374249282010-09-29T10:15:16.464-07:002010-09-29T10:15:16.464-07:00One of the most interesting aspects of science fic...One of the most interesting aspects of science fiction romance is that most of the writers in the genre are women, whereas in science fiction, most of the featured writers are men. It's a fascinating dichotomy and somebody should write an article...hint hint.<br />It's sort of a backdoor means for women to break into the science fiction genre.Julia Rachel Barretthttp://juliarachelbarrett.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-42441940106943979102010-09-28T15:58:10.906-07:002010-09-28T15:58:10.906-07:00You're right, Julia,
It is a very fine line. ...You're right, Julia,<br /><br />It is a very fine line. My comments were aimed mostly at the attitude I've encountered in some SF circles that view sex as pedestrian. I don't think it's pedestrian at all. I tend to view sex as fundamental and something interesting to explore from all angles.<br /><br />That said, do I set out to illuminate the science of sex? No, I've got my anchor thrown on the romance side of the ship, I'm interested in sex as an expression of culture, character, and conflict. I do like to toy with the biology of it though. After all, we've got a virtual playground of alien DNA to work with.<br /><br />I love that Science Fiction can explore these things. I think that so long as Science Fiction stays open to new science and new ideas, it will grow and evolve and stay viable as a genre.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-59880704465405858022010-09-28T12:06:27.470-07:002010-09-28T12:06:27.470-07:00Fabulous article! I wish I'd heard the podcas...Fabulous article! I wish I'd heard the podcast. SFR is a tough genre to write. I am a science fiction/fantasy fanatic, but I also love romance with a passion - no pun intended. It's hard for romantic scenes, or open-door sex, to resonate with strict science fiction fans - as far as I can tell, it seems to make them deeply uncomfortable. On the other hand, romance readers do not get the science fiction.<br />My SFR, Captured, has done very well because the relationship is the focus. Romance readers are all about the relationship. My Daughters of Persephone series is much more sci-fi-ish, and romance readers are struggling to get into it.<br />As an author, there is a fine line I must walk, and I'm not quite sure I've got both feet on it yet.<br />Great topic.Julia Rachel Barretthttp://juliarachelbarrett.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-27516964949480940902010-09-28T07:59:31.666-07:002010-09-28T07:59:31.666-07:00Seems like there's sex on the brain in genre f...Seems like there's sex on the brain in genre fiction land this week. Dear Author has a post up called <a href="http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2010/09/28/sexual-force-and-reader-consent-in-romance/" rel="nofollow">Sexual Force and Reader Consent in Romance.</a><br /><br />The article brings up several ideas that jibe well with what we're discussing here. Do readers here think that Science Fiction Romance heroines are mostly post-feminist in that they rarely seem to have the problem so many historical heroines do: saying yes to pleasure?Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08226550966725485156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-61794190058913713822010-09-28T07:06:26.909-07:002010-09-28T07:06:26.909-07:00Great comments, everyone.
Marva said: "Stra...Great comments, everyone. <br /><br />Marva said: "Straight SF, I can take or leave the sex scenes. All lit is about relationships, so it's the author's choice to get graphic."<br /><br />I personally agree with you, but I think it would be easy to find some hard SF readers who think sex and relationships don't really belong in science fiction. That mindset sees science fiction as about a higher intellect. There are even those who think biology is a softer science and only those books dealing with cosmology warrant serious consideration. <br /><br />I don't think that's where Science Fiction is headed. Rather, we're using Science Fiction to examine how our relationship with technologies changes us and our relationships with others.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08226550966725485156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-90504652826208131332010-09-28T06:31:53.522-07:002010-09-28T06:31:53.522-07:00How much R is needed in the SFR? Great discussion....How much R is needed in the SFR? Great discussion. <br /><br />Personally, I like to see the relationships fully developed (no shutting the hatch or drawing the curtain) but that said, I agree the level of intimacy has to advance the character development, the characters' bond, the plot or the culture-building. <br /><br />For me, it's all about the intimacy. Once a scene or succession of scenes is only there to show sexual variety and not the deepening of emotion, increasing of the stakes, or illustrating differences/blending of the characters' cultures, I lose interest. <br /><br />The Outback Stars is a good example of minimal sex scenes that work. Though I would have liked to see the scenes more fully developed, the connection between the characters--in spite of the fact their future seemed doomed--made for a compelling and tortured romance.<br /><br />Another popular SFR (which I won't name) built an intriguing conflict-driven relationship between the H/H only to have the heroine abandon the hero to die when he had life-threatening injuries. The betrayal of their bond at this crucial point in the story ruined the romance for me, causing me to lose respect for the heroine and discount her emotional investment as "just sex." Though probably perfectly acceptable in straight SF, I felt it didn't work for a SFR.L. A. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01198035351359321392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-31315542482314492822010-09-27T18:39:48.202-07:002010-09-27T18:39:48.202-07:00Erotica for erotica's sake, not so sure. Porn,...<i>Erotica for erotica's sake, not so sure. Porn, fuggetaboutit.</i><br /><br />I think the panelists did a good job of emphasizing that gratuitous sex/erotica/pornographic scenes are detrimental to the plot. Some of them provided examples of scenes that gave them the "squick" factor, but was that because the scenes were gratuitous or genuinely boundary pushing scenes? Difficult to say in some cases, but a totally subjective thing also.Heather Masseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-8639478574444583472010-09-27T18:36:10.697-07:002010-09-27T18:36:10.697-07:00Splendid article, Lisa! I missed hearing you on th...Splendid article, Lisa! I missed hearing you on the podcast, but so glad you could do this post and share your thoughts.<br /><br />The moderator of the podcast asked an interesting question, namely, is sex in SF targeted toward a specific demographic?<br /><br />I think many authors explored sex and sexuality simply because they could, and understood the inherent skiffyness of these topics. Although undoubtedly some books included a titillating sex scene or two for the fanboys.<br /><br />Seems to me that the early Spock-in-love fan fiction stories made an attempt to target readers who enjoyed romance-SF blends (of varying heat level). In other words, the idea of targeting romance readers and female SF fans who liked SF-romance blends came from *outside* mainstream print publishing. On top of that, they bundled the sex with the romance, recognizing the integral nature of the two.Heather Masseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-39737106612779921652010-09-27T17:08:54.172-07:002010-09-27T17:08:54.172-07:00Straight SF, I can take or leave the sex scenes. A...Straight SF, I can take or leave the sex scenes. All lit is about relationships, so it's the author's choice to get graphic.<br /><br />As a writer of SF, I have found a bigger market with a little sumpin-sumpin going on.<br /><br />I'm still trying to get used to the idea. I (at this point in time) would be hesitant to have anything too kinky in my books. I had a little lite fem/fem, but that is probably as far as I'll go.<br /><br />Other SF? Sex, yes. Futuristic sexual mores, okay. Erotica for erotica's sake, not so sure. Porn, fuggetaboutit.Cellophane Queenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08166797508899835493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-15981785789453283942010-09-27T16:13:58.870-07:002010-09-27T16:13:58.870-07:00I personally like the fact that SFR covers a broad...I personally like the fact that SFR covers a broad range of books, because my tastes trend to more tame stuff. LOL It's what I read and write. While I can read and enjoy books w/o romance, I do miss it and tend to spend my time with the romantic books. I'm totally there with relationships needing to be in there. I haven't had a chance to listen to the podcast yet, but plan to. Sorry you weren't able to be on it!Paulinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06673963438671468441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-42743117041174343762010-09-27T14:41:40.664-07:002010-09-27T14:41:40.664-07:00From what I've read it seem anything goes in s...From what I've read it seem anything goes in science fiction. It's more open than romance or even erotica in what is allowed. The top romance science fiction books have relationships between partners with one underage and the other over fifty. They also have bondage,S&M scenes, and multiple partners.<br />These are accepted and allowed because science fiction explores the implications of these relationships. It's not wish fulfillment but logical exploration of what if. I trade criticism with romance writers and have found they mark some of my science fiction sex scenes and situation unacceptable.<br />If the sexual situation fits the world and the characters it's right within science fiction even if it's against conventional values.<br />With that said science fiction does tend to pull the curtain on the love scenes. This is because science fiction has to cover more ground. It almost always has a political arc that has greater or equal emphasis to the romantic arc. There just isn't enough ink space to get everything in. So the love scenes get abbreviated. Science fiction readers like it that way. They don't want deep exploration of emotions and sensuality slowing down the plot.<br />Now SFR is a combination of the two genres but each book is housed on one shelf or the other. So SFR book is either clearly Romance or clearly Science Fiction. The ones that are truly in between are housed with Science Fiction. That means a book that is in between the genres has the wide open rules about what can be done but it may be best to pull the curtain on the details.<br /><br />My favorites with dealing with sex and sexuality are: Ann McCaffrey's Pern(dragon sex and those homosexual green riders), Bujold's Ethan of Athos (homosexual society), Robin Hobb's Farsear series (androgynous romance), Asaro's Skolian series (homosexual/bisexual romance, extreme December May relationships, incest, bondage, S&M). The difference that makes all this allowable and acceptable in SF is that SF gets into the social and biological ramifications of sex more than it gets into the eroticism of these situations.<br /><br />Lizzie NewellAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com