tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post3450809698824645894..comments2023-10-09T04:48:51.981-07:00Comments on SFR Brigade: Technowank vs. Character Drama: Which One is King?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-60290759649441386102014-06-09T10:53:50.748-07:002014-06-09T10:53:50.748-07:00I totally agree with Michelle's final paragrap...I totally agree with Michelle's final paragraph. She and I have a history of strong disagreement on what is and is not a romance and why it's important. I'm sure she's not surprised at my take on the post overall. :)<br /><br />As much as we're all trying to come together and raise visibility of our genre, Ella's right in that there is a very strong component of divisiveness. My own SFR is almost more of a futustic romance than SF, because the way I write ends up with a softer approach to the SF elements. It's all about the romance for me, and SF elements are secondary. There are times and places and the occasional blog post somewhere that can be interpreted as saying my take on SFR isn't worthy of the title. Those instances are few and far between, but they do happen. <br /><br />I focus on writing the best book I can with the story and characters that come to me. It's all about the people for me, so on that point I completely agree with Michelle. Everything else is secondary to creating great characters.<br /><br />But we can do that without giving the impression that some things are more worthy than others.Rachel Leigh Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16004728242824462126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-66118348156362079332014-06-07T17:21:46.843-07:002014-06-07T17:21:46.843-07:00Amen! I'm all about character-driven sci-fi. I...Amen! I'm all about character-driven sci-fi. It's why Star Trek fans are so loyal. And this is true for any genre--give them great characters and readers will try anything. <br />I think that's why SFR is so exciting! the romantic element suggests humanity (whether it be alien or not) and that's what readers identify with. Doesn't have to mean sappy love stories, as you mentioned. <br />Awesome post Michelle!PK HREZOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11650153097981426833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-90880608637535028922014-06-06T01:37:24.289-07:002014-06-06T01:37:24.289-07:00Sorry, I'm not picking up an anti-romance mess...Sorry, I'm not picking up an anti-romance message here, only pro-SFR. Pippa Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15146591827060731958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-55850170539823167482014-06-05T16:55:55.509-07:002014-06-05T16:55:55.509-07:00I had a very different take on this. To me, Michel...I had a very different take on this. To me, Michelle was simply stating her personal preference that she doesn't really care for traditional romance but also poking a bit of fun at the "no girl cooties" crowd, not at romance readers. <br /><br />She goes on to say why science fiction romance works for her when "regular" romance doesn't always. I don't see that as marginalizing readers who enjoy romance (and I'm one of them).<br /><br />I also believe Science Fiction Romance isn't a subgenre of Romance OR of Science Fiction. I truly believe it is it's own genre. When we have talented SFR writers who can't get accepted by publishing houses of either main genre, that seems to make an argument that SFR is an emerging independent genre all its own. Of course, it's a very small, emerging genre to this point, but that's how most of them got started. :)L. A. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01198035351359321392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-46765251625698110552014-06-05T16:23:23.495-07:002014-06-05T16:23:23.495-07:00Ella, I'm glad I'm not the only one who go...Ella, I'm glad I'm not the only one who got the Romance cooties vibe. <br /><br />I'm a romance reader FIRST. It's 98% of what I read. It's what I write FIRST. Everything else is second to the romance.<br /><br />Saying "I only like certain kinds of romance but I'm not comfortable calling it a romance" is just as dangerous, in some ways, as saying "romance is bad because it's covered with girl cooties."<br /><br />Calls for diversity are fine. But don't let a perceived lack of diversity become an excuse to make us dyed in the wool romance readers feel even more marginalized. We already have a hard time getting people to take us seriously. The fire doesn't need any more fuel.<br /><br />Alluding to being too high-brow and intellectual for romance, or not taking it seriously as a valid genre, is just as damaging as the so-called lack of diversity. We've been dealing with that attitude for DECADES, and there's been very little progress in getting rid of it. We don't need it popping up within our amazing genre.Rachel Leigh Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16004728242824462126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-54267987813992522062014-06-04T12:06:48.537-07:002014-06-04T12:06:48.537-07:00Heather, I agree with you.
But I see Romance as on...Heather, I agree with you.<br />But I see Romance as one of SFR's strengths. To make a valuable contribution to the discussion of SFR, I would hope anyone discussing it wouldn't try to marginalize all of the authors and readers who enjoy Romance.Ella Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00065576682504057608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-32025064849271323382014-06-04T09:45:55.237-07:002014-06-04T09:45:55.237-07:00Ella Drake said: You say, "I don't like r...Ella Drake said: You say, "I don't like romance."<br />This comes across in several areas of this post. <br /><br />It'd be helpful, Michelle, if you could expand upon that a bit more.<br /><br />As Ella said, and I'm guessing Michelle already knows, romance doesn't have to prove anything to anyone since it's as worthy a genre as any other.<br /><br />That said, is every romance for every reader? Not by a long shot. Is it sometimes a challenge to find the particular types of SFRs that fit our personal tastes? Yes, but that's a marketing issue, not an issue with the genre itself. And the potential of SFR to also offer a wider variety of romances is also a separate issue, although IMHO it somewhat plays into the concept of expanding the genre (maybe I'll blog about this aspect!).<br /><br />I saw this post as a call for SFR to use its strengths (i.e., character-driven elements) to make a valuable contribution, especially to science fiction given that genre's marginalization of character-driven stories, women, and diverse characters.Heather Masseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-66716515222378938992014-06-04T08:44:29.446-07:002014-06-04T08:44:29.446-07:00When I read this, I felt like I did when I was you...When I read this, I felt like I did when I was younger, trying to get boys to realize that I was a girl, I liked SFF and climbing trees and ew, Barbie, because I was a girl, but not GIRLY. This "I like SF with characters, but not ROMANCE" feels the same. We're breaking into an Old Boy's Club, and we're girls, but not too girly! because look, we don't like romance, and that's the girliest thing ever!<br /><br />SF has always been about the human condition. A way of looking at the world, where we are with regard to scientific discovery, and where we're headed if we continue the route we're on. If there's no room for love and romance in that, it should be because that's a consequence of the worldbuilding, not because 'ew, cooties', romance is too girly. <br /><br />*My apologies if this posts twice -- I was signed into a google account, tried to change it, and got booted.Dayna_Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16911207081058418496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-73168347773717986292014-06-04T08:40:13.006-07:002014-06-04T08:40:13.006-07:00When I read this, I felt like I did when I was you...When I read this, I felt like I did when I was younger, trying to get boys to realize that I was a girl, I liked SFF and climbing trees and ew, Barbie, because I was a girl, but not GIRLY. This "I like SF with characters, but not ROMANCE" feels the same. We're breaking into an Old Boy's Club, and we're girls, but not too girly! because look, we don't like romance, and that's the girliest thing ever!<br /><br />SF has always been about the human condition. A way of looking at the world, where we are with regard to scientific discovery, and where we're headed if we continue the route we're on. If there's no room for love and romance in that, it should be because that's a consequence of the worldbuilding, not because 'ew, cooties', romance is too girly. Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10235041288668557132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-65745017097630343602014-06-04T05:52:21.286-07:002014-06-04T05:52:21.286-07:00You say, "I don't like romance."
Thi...You say, "I don't like romance."<br />This comes across in several areas of this post. I can't overlook that element even while I think we're all in agreement in saying stop with the girl cooties & bring on the diversity. But as an author who loves BOTH science fiction and romance, I get a distinct Romance cooties vibe which I think undermines the idea of supporting female-coded escapism. It comes across as calling Romance icky and does the same thing as the girl-cooties attitude. <br /><br />I think that this subgenre has a lot of divisiveness within it. I don't think it helps the authors. It leads authors like me to eventually back away from discussions that hint (or not even hint) at Romance being lesser. Because I don't think I'll be heard. I can speak, say the same things over and over, but I'm not actually heard. Romance is a vital part of SFR (to me, that's obvious since SFR is a subgenre of Rom). And it's a valid genre. It's an important genre. That genre has had some pretty phenomenal diverse books. I'm proud to be both a Romance author and an SFF author. You can't have SFR without Romance as much as you can't have it without Science Fiction.<br /><br />While I don't think the readers necessarily see this divisiveness within SFR, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of those readers are women who like their Romance.<br /><br />So, is this a labeling issue? Are we really talking about Romantic Science Fiction? Or Science Fiction Romance? Or both? Either way, I'm as tired of the Romance cooties as the girl cooties that I see within the genre I usually love.Ella Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00065576682504057608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-16980580429841882482014-06-04T04:57:38.887-07:002014-06-04T04:57:38.887-07:00Great post, Michelle!
Character driven stories ar...Great post, Michelle!<br /><br />Character driven stories are nothing new to SciFi, though I do think historically SciFi has dropped the ball in exploring the unique challenges of meeting what Carl Jung considered a basic human need, the need for love, in a technologically advanced, or spacefaring setting. <br /><br />You really hit the nail on the head.JC Casselshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12359245589507445547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-36263538778722230962014-06-03T18:38:14.356-07:002014-06-03T18:38:14.356-07:00FANTASTIC post, Michelle. One of the best summarie...FANTASTIC post, Michelle. One of the best summaries of what makes SFR work that I've read.<br /><br />I'm going to run off and tweet it now!L. A. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01198035351359321392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-90724983687828089942014-06-03T18:28:06.430-07:002014-06-03T18:28:06.430-07:00I like smoochies! :D I like smoochies! :D Michelle Brownehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10561217699860189278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-37813579864215674202014-06-03T18:26:45.230-07:002014-06-03T18:26:45.230-07:00I like smoochies! :D I like smoochies! :D Michelle Brownehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10561217699860189278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2835785233541439590.post-17513029481798146732014-06-03T01:28:26.447-07:002014-06-03T01:28:26.447-07:00Michelle, I LOVE this post! You've summed it u...Michelle, I LOVE this post! You've summed it up for me perfectly. I'd give you smoochies, but we all know about those damn girl cooties. :PPippa Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15146591827060731958noreply@blogger.com